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Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  4. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  5. If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  6. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  7. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  8. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  9. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.

IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM

jlvs200s Jogo from The Netherlands (Troper in training) Relationship Status: At the center of everything that happens to me
Jogo
#43451: May 5th 2024 at 11:53:38 AM

[tup] The Witch, the Warden and the Von Kook Image

"Stand proud, Sukuna, you are strong." | He/Him
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
LarryT I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT! from the Eldritch Ocean Abyss Since: Aug, 2023
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Ravok Caesar Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Caesar
#43454: May 5th 2024 at 1:23:40 PM

Sure to the Lion, the Witch and the Warden

  • True Grit (2010): Tom Chaney is an impulsive, homicidal thug who is far worse than the affable Lucky Ned Pepper. On the run from Texas Ranger LaBoeuf for shooting a Senator's dog then killing the Senator himself for complaining, Chaney is hired by Mattie's beloved father for a job. Chaney blows all his earned money in gambling, then nearly shoots his opponents to death out of spite, only to instead kill Mattie's father on a whim for trying to calm him down. When Mattie tracks Chaney down to bring him to justice, Chaney is ordered by Ned to leave the young girl alone, but Chaney settles on killing her simply for convenience. He toys with whether he will strangle the girl to death or toss her into a snake pit to "scream and rot", all while taunting her that he feels no remorse for killing her father, and when LaBoeuf tries to save Mattie, Chaney nearly murders them both.

WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
227someguy I hate spoilers Since: Jul, 2018
I hate spoilers
#43455: May 5th 2024 at 1:38:06 PM

I can't find the EP for Larxene. I dug until page 1716.

Everyone look at my sandbox
TheGrayFox ....Phenomenal from A Lovecraftian fishing village Since: Sep, 2011
....Phenomenal
#43456: May 5th 2024 at 2:13:58 PM

[up] Larxene is an old proposal that's being re-added. G-Editor's candidates were cut due to repeated issues with inaccurate and possibly plagiarized info. But recently others were able to vouch that Larxene was legit so she's going back up.

[tup] for Harry, the Witch, and the Wardrobe-I mean, Warden.

There remains a foothold out of this mire — now climb.
Blazing_Larvesta Blazing Larvesta from Unova Route 18 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Blazing Larvesta
#43457: May 5th 2024 at 2:14:28 PM

Someone added Zephiel's portrayal in a Fire Emblem fangame to the entry's YMMV page. I'm bringing it up here so that someone could check it and see if he counts. In the meantime, I'm also going to remove the initial CM entry. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/FireEmblemEckesachs

EmperorGeode Not the Eye from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
Not the Eye
#43458: May 5th 2024 at 2:24:47 PM

That is more case for cleanup thread than this one.

DukeNukem4ever Since: Jan, 2017
#43459: May 5th 2024 at 2:37:45 PM

Here's Isaacs' writeup; open to feedback and suggestions.

  • Resident Evil: Extinction original draft (link): Doctor Isaacs is a high-ranking Umbrella researcher who, after experimenting on Alice in the wake of Raccoon City's destruction, seemingly lets her go, only to place her under the corporation's control shortly afterwards. Using her to track down a resistance hideout in Detroit, Isaacs has the Umbrella soldiers massacre many people inside, including the young Angela Ashford. After escaping trial during the T-Virus pandemic, Isaacs takes shelter in the underground facility where he puts Alice clones through a complex of deathtraps, with 87 of them dying gruesomely. After one zombie goes feral after being injected with the clone's blood, Isaacs leaves two fellow workers to die and, upon finding out that Alice survived the hideout raid, attacks Jill Valentine's convoy with enhanced zombies in an attempt to capture Alice for further experimentation, killing many and causing the death of Jill herself later on. Having been bitten during the convoy ambush, Isaacs mutates and, viewing himself as "the future", slaughters everyone in the facility; when Alice herself goes down to investigate, he tries to kill her as well, causing an undeveloped clone of hers to die in the resulting fight.

Edited by DukeNukem4ever on May 5th 2024 at 3:00:54 AM

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Atlantis1930 Since: May, 2012
#43462: May 5th 2024 at 3:53:58 PM

[tup] The Warden

Write up for Reissman:

  • EC Comics: Impact "Master Race": Carl Reissman, appearing to be an innocent refugee displaced by the second world war, was in fact a horrific Nazi war criminal and head of the infamous Belsen concentration camp. Overseeing the extermination of hundreds of people everyday, Reissman had prisoners taken away for grotesque human experimentation, forced prisoners into mass graves and had them buried alive and even skinned some to use as lampshades in the offices of the camps. When the camp was liberated by the allies, Reissman fled to America and, upon being confronted with a former victim, attempts to flee to avoid retribution for his crimes.

Edited by Atlantis1930 on May 5th 2024 at 11:57:27 AM

TBmacho22 Since: Jul, 2021 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
#43463: May 5th 2024 at 4:05:10 PM

I have a Legend of Zelda CM proposal. It comes from an unexpected source:

What is the work? Hyrule Warriors is a hack and slash game where Zelda characters are put in a Dynasty Warriors like scenario. Its story is about a sorceress who was corrupted by Ganondorf into raging war across Hyrule. However the CM I'm proposing ISN'T Ganondorf.

Who is he? What has he done?

Wizzro is a cursed ring that tricks passerbys into wearing, which absorbs their souls and manifested it into one malevolent wizard entity named Wizzro.

Once buried in the Goron mines and guarded by said species, Wizzro is resurrected by Cia who wanted to recruit him into her army. Appreciative at first, Wizzro secretly plans on backstabbing her, and goes through with that thought when they discover Volga and his army in the mines, to which he allies with in attempt to control them for his own ends.

Encountered again at Faron Woods, Wizzro sends our Deku Babas to poison the battlefield and stop the heroes and when that fails, lights the Deku Tree on fire. He is defeated shortly after.

After Cia opens the Gate of Souls, Wizzro impersonates Zelda and twists the minds of the Gorons in order for them to attack the Zoras and kidnap Ruto. He then appears at the Water Temple where under the same guise, he attempts to lower the morale of the heroes army and at the Temple of the Sacred Sword, Wizzro controls the ghost army against their will in order to gain access to the Master Sword.

Before the final battle with the heroes, Cia fought an incomplete Ganondorf. Upon seeing how evil and powerful Ganondorf is, Wizzro backstabs Cia again and gleefully attacks her and her army to please Ganondorf. He's fought one last time before being resealed into his ring.

Mitigating Factors?

This is a war game after all, but Wizzro was already an evil individual before the start of the game, being an evil ring that absorbs the souls of magicians who wear it in order to form a solid being. Plus outside of Girahim, Wizzro backstabs virtually everyone for the sake of power. To me, he has no mitigating factors.

Heinous Standard?

So since Hyrule Warriors is outside the Zelda canon, his only competitors are Ganondorf, Cia, Zant and Girahim.

Cia redeems herself

Zant and Girahim don't do enough and don't appear that often to commit Wizzro's level of villainy.

Ganondorf is probably Wizzro biggest competitor but Ganon doesn't hit as personally as Wizzro does, since Wizzro literally uses the skin of Zelda to instigate a species war, brainwash heroes into his bidding, and backstabs anyone he allies with if there's someone stronger. Plus Wizzro has lesser resources.

Verdict?

[tup] Yes

Starkrafty A coupla mammals makin' gravy (Pentatroper)
A coupla mammals makin' gravy
#43464: May 5th 2024 at 4:11:12 PM

No way to Wizzro. Ignoring his backstory, which leaves it seriously murky if he has any actual moral agency, he's not close to bad enough. Incredibly generic villainy overall that's blown out the water by Astor from Age of Calamity, who is in the exact same Evil Sorcerer niche as Wizzro.

Now we're cookin'! While nobody's lookin'! We're family! Culinarily!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#43465: May 5th 2024 at 4:13:12 PM

[tdown]wizaro

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
EmperorGeode Not the Eye from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
Atlantis1930 Since: May, 2012
#43467: May 5th 2024 at 4:20:34 PM

[tdown] Wizzro

Last month, my good friend ~MGD107 PM’d me alerting me to another potential keep from the detective series Vera. This came as a genuine surprise to both of us, as this show is in no way conducive to CM characters and in 13 series has clocked up only two real keeps.

Like my previous EP I want to talk about the heinous standard for this show before I do the EP just in case people assume the character doesn’t have enough murders and immediately downvote. Vera is a show where Sympathetic Murderer is the norm and not the exception. The killers are usually characterized as damaged or broken people who often regret their actions, and more than a couple of murders happen totally by accident with the murderer not even intending to kill them to begin with. The exceptions to this usually have an understandable or at least tangible motive for their actions and a sympathetic backstory as well, and even the rare killer with none of this (such the ones from Dark Road and The Darkest Evening) fail to pass the baseline heinous requirement. The average body count per episode will usually only be about two and there have also been more than few with only one. Of the killers/criminals who meet the requirements for this trope, one is the already kept Danny Hale, the second is a pedophile who raped two of his nieces but never appears on screen due to being long dead before the episode begins and the third is this guy.

So with that out of the way, let’s begin.

Vera is called to Holy Island to investigate the apparent “suicide” of a local celebrity called Rick Kelsall. Rick was in the midst of reuniting with his old school friends in a cottage on the coast of the island, something they have done every year since their school days. As Vera does some digging on the circle, it soon turns out that a former member of the group has a very nasty secret and they will do anything to keep it quiet. This leads to Rick’s old flame Annie Laidlore and her ex husband, a certain…

Who is he?

Daniel Rede. Seemingly a friendly and helpful man whose baby with Annie was tragically killed when only a few months old, the reality is much nastier.

What has he done?

After fathering a child with Annie, Daniel deliberately murdered the newborn after becoming annoyed at its constant crying. Deliberately giving the baby an overdose of sleeping medicine, Rede framed the killing as a tragic accident and manipulated Rick’s father (who was the attending doctor) into believing his sob story. However, the Doctor suspected the truth and wrote it down in his journal, but nevertheless helped to cover it up. Rede then made Annie think that she was responsible for the death of her child, leading her to be haunted for all of her life and wracked with mental health issues. Uncaring about his murder and how much it devastated Annie, Rede cheated on her with another woman at the next reunion party merely weeks after, leading to an enraged Rick to kick him out of the group and resulting in the girl he had sex with committing suicide out of guilt.

Moving on with his life, Rede became a highly successful individual and even married and had another child. But Rick, by then a successful local celebrity, approached Daniel one day to tell him that he was going to expose him for his role in murdering the baby. Unwilling to let go of his luxurious new life, Rede immediately moved to silence him. Breaking into the cottage during the reunion using his spare key, Rede smothered Rick to death in his bed and then made it look like Rick had committed suicide. However, Rede was seen going onto the island by a woman called Charlotte Thomas (Rick’s new girlfriend) and decided to blackmail him into giving her money, prompting Rede to break into her home, beat her, and then callously throw her off the balcony of her apartment and to her death.

Thinking he had gotten away with everything again, Rede realized that the journal that could implicate him had gone missing (not knowing that Vera and co had found it first). Trying to break into the cottage on Holy Island to check, Rede was recognised by PC Billington and, upon being questioned, beat the man unconscious and then drove him to the causeway of the island and dumped him there, intending for him to drown when the tide came in and swept him away. Thinking he had been successful, Rede went to the woods near his home, pretending to get on with his daily routine, when Vera approached him (pretending to be alone) and revealed everything she knew about what he’d done in order to extract a confession. Entirely dropping his Faux Affably Evil act, Rede all but boasted about his crimes and said that after building such a nice life for himself he could hardly have it come out that he murdered an infant. Arming himself with an ax, Rede sadistically taunted her by saying she was clearly losing her touch for being so stupid as to approach him alone, before trying to decapitate her and take the journal. However, Vera reveals she came with armed police and Rede’s own wife arrested him. Rede is then presumably jailed for life for his crimes.

Redeeming Qualities or Freudian Excuse?

Nothing really. Whilst he’s shown to have a new family he doesn’t seem to care about them in the slightest. He shares no scenes with his daughter and when his wife arrests him at the end his only response is to glare at her and nothing else. Whilst he claims to have been “devastated” at murdering his baby it’s clear that this is utter BS, as when he talks about it with his nice guy act dropped he’s all but emotionless about it and his only response to being exposed is to make an annoyed eye roll. Other than that, not a thing to speak of. Rede is a completely sociopathic, Faux Affably Evil individual and when cornered entirely drops his nice guy act to show a callous, sneering and cruel individual underneath.

Heinous Standard?

Easily passes it. With three murders and an additional two attempted, Rede has one of the biggest attempted body counts on the entire show and his actual murders are far more brutal than the show's normal fare. Likewise, child murder on this show is practically unheard of, let alone the deliberate killing of a baby, especially for such a petty reason like mere annoyance. In addition, Rede's personal cruelty is unmatched, with almost no other killer displaying his level of sadism towards his victims.

Conclusion?

A surprising keep.

Edited by Atlantis1930 on May 5th 2024 at 12:50:49 PM

TurlesTheVegan from The Darkest Pit of the Underworld Since: Dec, 2023 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#43468: May 5th 2024 at 4:21:38 PM

[tup] for Maniac Harry, the Witch, the Warden and Daniel Rede.

[tdown] for Wizzro.

Edited by TurlesTheVegan on May 5th 2024 at 7:22:52 AM

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Splonk Harbinger of Cringe from Basement Since: Sep, 2022 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Harbinger of Cringe
#43470: May 5th 2024 at 4:23:16 PM

Alrighty, got another music candidate for you all. This one is admittedly one I am mixed on, but he's been on my mind for awhile now, so I've decided to give them a go just to see what would happen. So without further ado, let's begin!

What is the Work?

"The One Who Waits" is a song created by Music/longestsoloever based off the popular title Cult of the Lamb. It revolves around the titular character as he has the Lamb serve him and sacrifice other lives in order to grow stronger and stronger so that he can one day be freed and conquer the world once more. The song alternates between the Povs of both The One Who Waits and the Lamb as they converse, with the Lamb eventually rebelling against their master after they are ordered to sacrifice themselves for the sake of the old god being able to escape. With the ending of the song implying that they managed to overthrow him after becoming stronger than him.

Who is He?

The One Who Waits serves as the Big Bad of the song. A malevolent godlike creature chained to the underworld, The One Who Waits employs the Lamb, having them perform sacrifices in order to one day free him. Ordering them to sacrifice the Bishops and presumably many others, his ultimate goal is to gain enough power to break out of his chains, and conquer the world, even stating that he will "build a new world upon the bones of the dead". Eventually, despite the other's loyalty, The One Who Waits orders the Lamb to sacrifice themselves in order to free him. When the Lamb objects and rebels, the song itself implies that they were strong enough to defeat him, presumably putting an end to his reign of terror for good.

Mitigating Factors?

Alright so, when it comes to canon, The One Who Waits' mitigating qualities include respect for the Lamb, and remorse for killing Shamura, neither of those are present here. Not only does he order the Lamb to "kill the Bishops one by one" (which includes Shamura since he was a Bishop), but he then proceeds to try and have the Lamb sacrifice themselves for the sake of his freedom, safe to say he doesn't really view him with any respect beyond seeing them as a useful pawn.

Now in terms of other stuff? Being taken seriously isn't much of an issue considering the song plays his crimes for intense gravity. Plot may be a problem, but it's not like the song is exclusively about him listing his evil deeds. It actually has a loose narrative of the One Who Waits ordering the Lamb, who was once a sacrifice to him, to sacrifice others in order to free himself. Not to mention it alternates between two Povs, the One Who Waits themselves and the Lamb, with the song actively showing us how the One Who Waits is causing the Lamb to fall further and further into villainy. Plus the song itself also has accompanying visuals showing a bunch of skulls laid on the ground, so it's not like it is completely offscreen. And as I mentioned before, The One Who Waits is implied to have been defeated by the Lamb themselves at the end.

Heinous Standard?

Well, they mention having the Lamb sacrifice presumably several Bishops to him, wants the Lamb to sacrifice themselves to him, and there are also pretty strong implications that he is out for mass murder.

"Build a new world upon the bones of the dead", plus there's the skulls seen near the end of the song which, while they were likely done by the Lamb, the Lamb is The One Who Waits' servent who is committing evil deeds for him, so I think it's safe to attribute some of the blame to him.

I suppose you could make the argument that he is a godlike being so his crimes should be bigger. But keep in mind, he is locked up in chains for a majority of the song, so his abilities are rather limited. Plus I feel some of the personal cruelty, and the implications of wanting to kill a shit tone of people are enough to make him pass.

Verdict?

I'll let you decide.

My mere presence makes everyone's day worse.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#43471: May 5th 2024 at 4:24:34 PM

[tup]rede

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#43472: May 5th 2024 at 4:27:59 PM

Yes to Rede. So I'm guessing the pedophile is too offscreen? Because currently Danny's the only keeper.

Also, I think something's missing: "In addition, Rede"...what?

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
EmperorGeode Not the Eye from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
Not the Eye
LarryT I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT! from the Eldritch Ocean Abyss Since: Aug, 2023
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Atlantis1930 Since: May, 2012
#43475: May 5th 2024 at 4:31:39 PM

[up][up][up] Oops! Fixed it!

The issue I had with the pedophile is we never even see what he looks like. We hear alot about him and his crimes but we never get any kind of visual reference and because of that I don't know if he can qualify under the current rules. His crimes are definetly onscreen as they're the entire motivation for the murders in the episode and we hear extensive descriptions of what he did, but we never actually see the man himself, not even a photograph.

Edited by Atlantis1930 on May 5th 2024 at 12:33:32 PM


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