Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
By my count, Stevenson still needs one more Cut vote.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
If you didn't count me, I'll vote to cut just to make it official.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I did count you.
Cut Stevenson
Thank you! There's the deciding vote.
x 13
...I'm sorry, but we still discussing Etelgar?
As the one who got him up 4 years ago, I made a cut request after getting new facts. When the OG proposer files the cut, I thought that'd be a rather straightforward case (plus everyone else seems OK with cutting Etelgar, so...)
Edited by RobertTYL on May 2nd 2024 at 10:14:00 PM
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
I found this on YMMV.Homicide Life On The Street
- In "The True Test", McPhee Broadman is a vicious, sociopathic teenager who commits repugnant acts of cruelty to animals and other boys and takes advantage of his wealthy background and family connections to avoid any consequences. He sadistically abuses three younger boys at his boarding school until they view him as a virtual cult leader, persuading them that he's breaking them down to build them up. When he's questioned about how one of the three came to kill one of the others, he finally admits, or rather boasts, that he ordered it because the dead boy repeatedly refused to carry out his final task for him... murdering McPhee's own mother. He happily and arrogantly gloats about his various crimes, experiencing nothing but sadistic pleasure about them.
Was this approved as I couldn't find it on the main page anywhere?
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
The Draftsman of Doom
It seems to have been added unilaterally by ~London Kd S
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Oh, if you were the proposer, then that's enough for me. So both him and Stevenson can go.
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Cut Etelgar
A while ago there was consensus to rewrite the Demiurge/Yalbadoath from Gosnic mythology to clarify how it only counted in some versions. Is everyone ok with this?
Gnostic mythology
- The Demiurge, or Yaldabaoth, is a take on the Old Testament God, used to explain the Problem of Evil. A malevolent false god, Yaldabaoth is the source of humanity's sinful nature and all the misery, who takes joy in human evil, so long as he's worshiped as the Top God. Yaldabaoth created the physical realm, and humanity, as debaucherous and mindless creatures, before the higher gods took pity on them and granted them knowledge and souls, thus giving access to the true spiritual world. The materialistic Yaldabaoth would prefer to manipulate the world in wickedness, keeping humanity in the dark of the spiritual world. This puts him in direct conflict with his mother Sophia, who in some versions was destroyed by her sonwith her remnants becoming humanity's souls.
Gnostic mythology
- The Demiurge, or Yaldabaoth, is a take on the Old Testament God, used to explain the Problem of Evil. A malevolent false god, Yaldabaoth is the source of humanity's sinful nature and all the misery, who takes joy in human evil, so long as he's worshiped as the Top God. Yaldabaoth created the physical realm, and humanity, as debaucherous and mindless creatures, before the higher gods took pity on them and granted them knowledge and souls, thus giving access to the true spiritual world. The materialistic Yaldabaoth would prefer to manipulate the world in wickedness, keeping humanity in the dark of the spiritual world. This puts him in direct conflict with his mother Sophia, who in some versions was destroyed by her son, with her remnants becoming humanity's souls. While Made of Evil in some versions, other versions are just pure evil.
Edited by LarryT on May 3rd 2024 at 4:23:40 AM
In honor of Akira Toriyama
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Works for me.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Not the Eye
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Demiurge rewrite
Cut Etelgar
for the Yaldabaoth rewrite. Also for keeping Larxene.
to the Demiurge rewrite.
Also, I think we need to cut a candidate.
- HalaCG's Undertale song "Genocide": Frisk and Chara undergo significant Adaptational Villainy. Frisk was once a pacifistic individual who chose to throw away their morals in exchange for relentless bloodshed, while Chara is a bloodthirsty sadist looking to make the world burn. Resetting the world after accomplishing the best ending possible, Frisk goes on a rampage, slaughtering every monster in sight and not letting a single one go unnoticed. Having been awakened through Frisk's thirst for power, Chara gleefully assists them in wiping out the Underground, killing every monster they come across all the while coercing Frisk into forgetting their past so that they can "make them all bleed". Both motivated by sadistic thrills, Chara kills Frisk for disobeying them in the end, and goes on to destroy the world.
Chara can stay. They're a basic portrayal of the character (manipulating Frisk into genocide before killing them that's kinda a staple for them in Undertale fanworks) but a keep nonetheless. But as for Frisk? They've gotta go.
For starters, the entry acts as if Frisk is fully aware of the pacifist run they did in the past, and is carrying out genocide just For the Evulz, but that's really not accurate. While Frisk is absolutely sadistic about it, Frisk is ultimately just trying to get back to the surface world, one lyric being about their desire to survive. The EP mentions and argues against it by saying Frisk already did a pacifist run so it wasn't truly about survivial for Frisk. But the thing is? Literally their first line in the song is confusion about the world they're in and how it's crawling with deceit, footage being shown of Flowey tricking Frisk and nearly killing them during their first encounter. Here are the lyrics for reference's sake.
- What's this world so dark? Crawling with deceit? Cutting down health bars, with a stick I'll teach them why. I will survive. I'll cross that line now.
Even before making contact with Chara, it's apparent how Frisk doesn't have their memories of the Golden Ending within the song. While Frisk definitely takes things too far, the reason they're even carrying out the genocide to begin with is because they believe they can't trust any of the monsters. They're not doing it just for thrills, they're doing it for what they believe to be their own safety.
Moreover? Frisk has a potential (and pretty explicit in my opinion) Even Evil Has Standards moment by the end of the song. That disobeying mentioned in the entry? It was Frisk rejecting Chara's plan to erase the entire world. The original EP says that it's too vague to call it mitigating since we don't know why they rejected the offer. But by the same token, that means we don't have any reason to discount that as a disqualifying factor either. And personally, if someone rejects an offer to wipe out the whole world with no implication that it was for selfish reasons? I think that kind of speaks for itself about it being a redeeming quality.
Regardless, the song incarnation of Frisk is at best too ambiguous to call a Complete Monster, and at worst, has a blatant disqualifying factor. I firmly move to cut them.
Edited by Awesomekid42 on May 5th 2024 at 1:56:44 PM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Cut Frisk; rewrite to make the entry for Chara only.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Here is my proposal for a rewrite of Angelo Punchinello:
- Original: Angelo Punchinello is the Boss of the Punchinello Crime Family. A mobster with countless deaths on his orders, Punchinello tries to wipe out the Russian Mob while enforcing the power structure of his Family with such monsters as Jack Lupino and the Trio. Under Nicole Horne, Punchinello sees the mass distribution of Valkyr with no care for the minds it destroys. In his personal life, Punchinello is a sadistic wife beater who tortures his own wife Lisa to death.
- Proposed rewrite: Angelo Punchinello is The Don of the Punchinello Crime Family, one the most notorious and brutal Mafia clans in New York, who distributes a highly dangerous and potent drug V on Nicole Horne's behalf. To maintain his power base Punchinello employs sadistic, insane criminals like Jack Lupino, Rico Muerte, and the Trio, all of whom commit gruesome crimes with Punchinello's silent approval, only objecting to Lupino's madness because it's bad for business. Once Max Payne and Mona Sax get on his trail, Punchinello ordered Frankie Niagara to murder and mutilate Max with a baseball bat and then deliver the corpse to the cops as intimidation, while also sending Mona to be slowly killed by the Trio. After Max had escaped the hotel and captured his shipment of weapons, Punchinello tried to kill him by burning him alive in a restaurant. In his personal life, Punchinello is a sadistic wife-beater who ended up beating his wife Lisa to death.
- "Max Payne should die like a dog for the trouble he's caused. Frankie, I know I can trust you to give this matter the dedication it needs."
- "That meant somebody thought the mafia had me and didn't want the cops snooping around anymore. The body would be delivered to them barely recognizable. Case closed. Don Punchinello had the power to be that reliable source, which was no news... but his news was old news."
- "That crazy witch, you shoulda heard her. She was a real scream when the boys caught her tryin' to cap the Don... To the Trio? That's even worse than what Frankie's doin' to that poor bastard downstairs. She's gonna take a long time to die."
- "Don't want to think that one of my boys is not playing with a full deck. Shape up, Jack, we're running a business here. I'd hate to send the Trio to strong-arm you."
Edited by Thermal7 on May 4th 2024 at 5:48:02 AM
"Our daddy taught us not be ashamed of our CM writeups, 'specially since they're such good side an' all" - some bald guy from some movie
Cut Frisk.
No power in the ‘verse can stop me.
Not the Eye
Cut Frisk
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Cut Frisk, he and Chara used to have separate writeups so we can probably use Chara’s old one with a few small tweaks.
In honor of Akira Toriyama
Cut Song!Frisk. Was always a bit iffy on them counting TBH.
You've been kicked out of the Mickey Mouse Clubhouse. :(
Cut Frisk, fine with the Angelo expansion.
Cut Frisk
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Shin Megami Tensei IV
To Larry: If you are doing that, The Demiurge gets unambiguous positive traits in versions like Valentinian gnosticism, where Humanity's redemption starts with the Demiurge creating Jesus' physical body (Christ hijacks the Demiurge false messiah, but Valentinus made I clear that such creation was a desesperate Cry for help that Christ listened).
I'm not saying cut, obviously he keeps in many versions, but if we are noticing versions where he doesn't keep, welp
Edited by KazuyaProta on May 4th 2024 at 11:03:36 AM
Watch me destroying my country
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Weren't we going to reorganize the MCU page due to Agents of Shield no longer being canon?
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
While it may not be part of the “sacred timeline”, it’s still based on and around the MCU that I’d say it can stay.
With the whole Multiverse, I say we treat it about the same as What If?.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."